AMD announces physics partnership with Havok

just to cover all the bases my system is going to contain an intel processor for havoc cpu physics, an ati graphics card incase havoc goes better on the gpu and an ageia physx card in case nvdia wins the day....sorted!!!

Comment by technogiant at 10:11am 21st June 2008

At least its something interesting talk about lol! :D

Comment by NikoBellic at 12:12am 14th June 2008

Nvidia like AMD for motherboarding, yet despise ATI, AMD nicking parts of havok that are part of Intel, VIA comes in and is in cooperation with nvidia, whilst making intel chipsets, So exactly where is the competition? LOL its just so stupid, its like having a full board of non-executives that actually worked for the company or associated companies only a couple years ago, and saying they are in fact individual and non biased toward to the company! *sigh*

Comment by Lightning_Pete at 3:11pm 13th June 2008

It's still going to be decided by whether cpu, or gpu physics processing offers the best solution. If it's cpu then Havok wins... obviously, as its the only one that offers cpu processed physics. If it's gpu there is a bit more of a fight, but nvidia cards are still dominant at the moment, so Physx is more likely to win. Whether physics can be accellerated on intel and amd, or just intel cpus makes little difference if it offers little benefit over the current cpu handled physics solutions compared to gpu accelerated physics.

Comment by NewParadigm at 1:39pm 13th June 2008

the fact that no core game process is going to be locked in to a specific processor. Physics is just too integral for games developers to say... ok this game will only run on these processors. How many games were actually developed that required a physx card to play?

Comment by NewParadigm at 9:38am 13th June 2008

Maybe Intel are doing this to make Nvidia go downhill to that extent where intel could purchase them for such a little price... and obviously, the team behind Nvidia would have to hand over the keys then if they wanted any chance of Nvidia getting through the rough patch... just a thought

Comment by NikoBellic at 2:58am 13th June 2008

Maybe Intel are doing this to make Nvidia go downhill to that extent where intel could purchase them for such a little price... and obviously, the team behind Nvidia would have to hand over the keys then if they wanted any chance of Nvidia getting through the rough patch...

Comment by NikoBellic at 2:58am 13th June 2008

you just raised an interesting point...I can see now that partly, Intel want to team p with AMD to get the Havok standard to be accepted as the norm for CPU physics as AMD and Intel collectively own a huge majority of the CPU market, whereas other manufacturers (including Via!) have little if any, apart from niche market sectors. So let's assume that intels LarryBird graphics card is on par with ATi offerings. realistically then, you could say that COULD give Intel a 20% share on the graphics market, with ATi having 20%, nVidia having around 50% (this would drop from their current 70% as I could see Intel providing bribes COUGH incentives for manufacturers to use an all-Intel platform). So in a way, Intel are (as I said before) playing co-operatively to give them the hold on the physics market they want. That is unless not many people buy their graphics cards and nVidia retain more-or-less their currentmarket share, in which case we could (still) see PhysX become the norm adopted by GPU-based physics while Havok remains CPU-only (unless you buy LarryBird)....What makes this even more interesting is that we could see a huge collaboration between nVidia and Via, eading to solely Via/nVidia-based systems becoming available, which from the news of Via's new CPU's and (despite the criticism they recieve) the power/low consumption/cost standard that nVidia's cards have at the minute (note to current 8800GTX/Ultra owners, you'll have to wait until the 9900XR3i comes out..I'm talking about people who are moving into top-end graphics from midrange/onboard)...err..anyway, this means we could see some interesting systems/platforms being released in the next year or so which could be quite profound for the whole industry :D

Comment by EdArch at 12:01am 13th June 2008

A smart move by Intel. As they see Nvidia as more of a threat than AMD when is comes to physics, what better way to ensure developers use Intel's API than letting it work on all CPU's/GPU's from another mainstream competitor. Now Intel can say "Our API works on Intel CPU's, future, Intel GPU's, AMD CPU's and AMD/ATi GPU's. Nvidia's will only work on Nvidia GPU's." This is all about control. Now Intel can control what happens with physics on games and put Nvidia back in (what Intel considers to be) their place.

Comment by l3v1ck at 11:45pm 12th June 2008

I think this will probably be due to AMD owning ATI and Intel aint so great with GPUs, where as Nvidia had problems with intel before plus Nvidia and VIA are now teaming up, so this is just a few of the reasons that intel want AMD under their wing, Plus Intel wouldn't need to buy out Nvidia or ATI to help with saving their platform... think about it... without decent GPUs then no one would wanna buy into their platform (also with AMD owning ATI then the GPUs will obviously do better at taking advantage of the CPU!! - due to them wanting better CU sales...)

Comment by NikoBellic at 7:30pm 12th June 2008

i must say this puts nvidia in quite a sticky situation, with the other companies supporting havok, who will want to use physx when it is only supported by one company? as many have said, i think intel are maybe helping AMD to keep down nvidia, who is obviously going to be thier next big rival and it may well be hardware dependant if intel use the SSSE4 extensions, i dont think AMD supports those

Comment by soddit113 at 4:41pm 12th June 2008

well i gues maybe we will see the core physics carried out by any processor, then maybe if you have an intel processor you will get additional physics options like you did with a physx card, and that's what aMD want a slice of. But if Havok does start to use GPU accelleration to enhance this further, there is no way Intel will want this to only work on ATI cards, that would be bad too limiting for Havok making it less attractive to gamers and developers alike. So I guess the big question is going to be, is Havok CPU based physics going to be completely exclusive from using physx GPU accelleration, which has always been seen as an addition to the core physics processing anyway?

Comment by NewParadigm at 3:43pm 12th June 2008

if physics is calculated by the cpu, then surely it isn't going to be a case of 'oh you dont have an intel processor - this game wont carry out any physics processing then.' At least this has never been the case with cpu reliant game mechanics... what would be next CPU specific AI? I think if havok continued to be used in games it would have to work on any other windows compatible processor anyway... it would be the games developer licensing Havok... not the cpu manufacturers... so what exactly is the form this collaberation is taking?

Comment by NewParadigm at 3:43pm 12th June 2008

I still think that there is some fear driven motive. I doubt Intel would worry about AMD being on board when trying to create a new standard... they have a long history of trying (and often succeeding) to introduce new standards (just dont mention BTX lol) and I dont think they would normally be afraid to try pushing Havok on their own.

Comment by NewParadigm at 2:46pm 12th June 2008

Lets face it, Intel's main rival is not AMD its Nvidia. And Intel are doing this because they want to make a common ground within Physics. As in the best way and easiest way would be to use Havok on the CPU than PhysX in CUDA as most PC's will have either an Intel CPU, or an AMD CPU thats a given its not a given to say that all PC's will have an Nvidia based GPU. And to add insult to injury there are the ATi cards which this should work perfectly on and thats another 30% of a different market. Intel have basically given themselves 100% control over the CPU Physics markets, and 30% of the GPU market. Leaving developers very little choice when it comes to which API to choose as the Havok will be more asscessible to the consumer.

Comment by CPC_RedDawn at 2:45pm 12th June 2008

I think, as said, AMD & Intel are sharing the Havok technology to make a standard in CPU physics acceleration and possibly a platform for ATi cards and Intels upcoming thingamajig wositcalled Larryaphid card. As for nVidia, I don't think they'll be losing out. They still own a huge share of the graphics card market, both at gamer and professional level, so I think their CUDA/PhysX will become the standard for GPU-based physics. I knowalot of people are suspicious of Intel's seemingly good-natured association with AMD, but it's Havok, not Intel itself, that's co=operating. Sometimes sharing and co-operation are very good for competition, and believe it or not, even Intel need a bit of competition.

Comment by EdArch at 2:05pm 12th June 2008

I'm pretty sure he didn't actually expect this relationship to produce cheaper components... I think it may have been, like, a joke dude... you know, Intel gains the sudden desire to drop prices by osmosis from AMD or something

Comment by NewParadigm at 12:58pm 12th June 2008

Why do so many people talk about business politics with the view that we, the consumers, will get the best result and cheaper products? These companies and ALL companies want to make as much money as possible, so they continue to strive for the optimum of performance and cost so we, the consumer will buy their product. Cheaper units only come out after one or more of three things happen. 1) The current line is replaced by better and more cost effective products. 2) Sales of products fall dramatically so they lower the price to drive up the sales of remaining units. 3) Sales are not as good as forcasted from the off and subsequently follows the actions of step 2. I see this as a really bad sign for AMD in the long run. Any technology developed will have a kick back from AMD to Intel as they own Havok. That in itself will make Intel a stronger beast to compete with. Not to mention Intel's expansion in to other future markets such as SSD's. As for physics in games... just like DX10, I think we are still a long, long way before either technology makes it as an integral part of the gaming industry. Lets not forget that more and more games developers are concentrating on the console markets and the graphical power of consoles is way behind that of PC's. Maybe that is one reason why the next console race is not due until 2012-13.

Comment by PokerMuppet at 11:59am 12th June 2008

a desperate move, but by AMD or Intel. Are Intel scared that PhysX will undermine their Havok aqcuisition and agreed to work with AMD, or are AMD scared of being left behind without any decent physics and agreed to pay through the nose to use Havok?

Comment by NewParadigm at 12:07pm 12th June 2008

maybe this is the begining of something quite beautiful between intel and AMD? i can see it now, they'll get all close, and start working together with all sorts of things, and sooner or later pro's will be made one hell of alot cheeper than they are now... one can dream...

Comment by lunarus at 11:31am 12th June 2008

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